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[Music]

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explode the bazaars or e-ticket ride

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into the world of the paranoid

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strap yourself in as we traverse the

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universe exploring the unexplained UFO

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of ghosts Lost Worlds cryptozoology as

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well as other dimensions it's time to

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take back the night now your

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electrifying hosts of exploring the

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okay where is it where is it where where

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is my precious

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Tim Tim Bentley oh I finally found you

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what what are you doing down in this

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dark and nasty cave lost lost lost lost

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lost my preciousness walk prick precious

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what precious must a precious they stole

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it from us it's ours we want it we need

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it ok ok ok calm down here oh I'll help

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you look for it

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oh wait wait here's something

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French practice oh but this is just a

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corned beef on rye sandwich no no no no

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no no no we have a show to do and you

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can have hmm you can have it

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once we Casey hmm

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stop eating the precious me not meeting

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it now no I'm like my purse I'm here in

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the case yes mmm okay that's good

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precious to him boy okay I'd rather have

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the ring need some horseradish

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I swear so how are you doing out there

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in cool and funky Jasper Indiana cool

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and funky well has it been cool and

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funky yet tomorrow it's supposed to

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start getting cool and funky but you

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know what do you expect for this time of

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year it's almost Halloween it's October

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who's Mike Mike my Christmas you know

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well you know just to put in a little

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plug here for something I seldom to

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attend affairs but this Sunday which is

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October the 13th I actually will be

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attending a fair sort of it's the Jersey

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City oddities market and it's October

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13th which is Sunday and it runs from

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noon to 6:00 of a clock and I believe

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that the location of it is the part a

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Harborside which would be down near the

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harbour and it's going to feature over

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70 artists and collectors of old and odd

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balloon twisting and special live magic

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shows and the editors of weird New

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Jersey Nina there and I have been asking

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them to come onto the show or any moon

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and I figure I will corner them while

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I'm on

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there and I'm sure they will be hustling

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their magazine which is a really good

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read I mean it's a you know of course

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it's about strange things that go on New

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Jersey but there are a lot of strange

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things that go on there having been born

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and raised there of course I know about

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them many of them and I will be there

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handing out cards to promote our show

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here exploring the bizarre because we

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still need to have people more people

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know about the program into tuned in and

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perhaps even to come on as guests so if

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you're in the area and I'm hoping maybe

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Hercules will show up in Maria the and

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Rio will be there and a couple of their

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surprise guests they're helping me hand

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out some catalogs and also perhaps we

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will see some of our listeners there and

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Carla who was the previous co-host will

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also be showing the some of the gals

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that work at her salon a balance so come

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on over and say hello it doesn't cost a

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dime although I'm sure you might find

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something magical mystical and curious

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to to purchase and take home with you

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but Tim let us get on with the evenings

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festivities because actually for me it

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is sort of a a bit of the festivity I've

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known the guests that we're going to be

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speaking with tonight for many a full

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moon in fact I met her when I was

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starting to organize and run the New

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York school of occult Arts and Sciences

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which would have been in the early 1970s

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so why don't you take it away they're in

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Jasper and tell us about our guests well

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it may will be my pleasure Tim well as

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you said Carol Linda Gonzalez is a good

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good friend of you of yours for quite a

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long time now Carol says that she's born

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and raised in Manhattan and a frequent

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traveler on the astral now since her

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early years carol had paranormal

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experiences you know is she says a

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parent

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tell you grow up forget about that but

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the experiences didn't stop and she

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didn't forget

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now she grew older she did the usual

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things with her life she's been the

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first 20 years learning through school

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then she spent years working with the

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goal of saving enough money to retire

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made a pleasant life for herself in the

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usual way now in the spiritual realm

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Carol never took her parents advises

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like a lot of us they were both the

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spiritual people and encouraged her to

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go to church and read the Bible that was

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it the plus side of that advice left her

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free to come to her own interpretations

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based on her personal experiences so now

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she says the church offered no final

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answers to the questions but it did

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serve as a springboard to other

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experiences now she found much of what

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she was looking for at is that Weiser's

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Weezer's bookstore probably both of you

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know the risers and you know what yet in

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the basement no doubt ah okay well and

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that was back in the 1970s and there

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were spiritual books from all over the

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world even more important was their

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bulletin boards and posted there were

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lectures and meetings with people who

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had plenty of interests and experiences

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in the topics that Carol wanted to learn

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about now through the years Carol had

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was an active member of the Association

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for research and enlightenment in New

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York City where she learned about Edgar

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Cayce she became a member of the Ohio

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Lodge and learned a bit about what

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Aleister Crowley did and she became am I

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gonna say this right Carol garter in

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Ian's wicked garden Aryan Thank You

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Marion Wiccan and worked with the late

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Margot Adler as well as others in that

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movement now she networked with many in

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the New York City Pagan community in the

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1990s that led her to writing an article

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for The Village Voice in 1999 about the

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Pagan community in New York still works

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with members of the fellowship of Isis

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and carol has met wonderful and not so

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wonderful people through her adventures

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in spirituality and she also is the let

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me find this on here she also manages

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the New York City area junior art Okun

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and fantasy fans so Carol welcome to

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exploring the bazaar

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hello god you got everything perfect gee

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what an introduction how much did you

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pay him for that we'll never tell well

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well you know I I know a Carol since I

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guess a the 1970s I was running an

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organization down on 14th Street at

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Greenwich Village area it was the New

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York school of occult arts and sciences

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and we were in add to the local of media

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for work we had workshops and seminars

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and seances on Saturday night at the

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midnight and one of the individuals that

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we had lecturing down for us was a very

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attractive young lady by the name of

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Wally L Mart

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who was known as the White Witch of New

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York now recently Carol our guest

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contributor day of a little memory I

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would say a chapter or a segment in the

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book the book is a David Bowie UFOs

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witchcraft cocaine and paranoia which is

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the occult saga of Wally el marked in

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rock and roll which of New York and that

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book of course is available on Amazon

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you could just probably type in Wally

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and David Bowie and the book of Komodo

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flying you know how to get all of her

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stuff but Doug how did you first find

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out about the occult Center was that the

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first place that you had gone to learn

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about the the occult was it through an

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ad in The Village Voice or some of media

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no there was a woman I knew named Betty

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Rubel and Betty knew you and talked

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about you your interest in UFOs I was in

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a search for God group which is a Edgar

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Cayce group and he would talk about

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- now I think I came across something at

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wisest because that was the place - to

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network and to find where to go and I

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was very interested now at the time what

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the first time I went I really was

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interested in the spiritual aspect so

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while he was really a presence and I

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never forgot her I didn't know all that

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much about her except that I thought she

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was marvelous and amazing and I never

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forgot him every time I would speak to

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you I'd ask after her but I also later

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on had a UFO sighting so that well what

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was that all about Windows in 1972 in

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Brooklyn and there was at the time a

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flap a lot of people who saw it later on

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I did meet people who saw the same thing

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in the same area and there was a an

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article in The Village Voice about this

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flap that was going on and it asked for

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people to report it so I reported it but

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I never forgot it it was very strange it

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was I walked out in the middle of the

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street at night just because it was warm

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just to get some air and the the

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atmosphere changed although the lights

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went out and this thing fell out of the

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sky I could even see a pattern on it and

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it moved it did a 90 degree turn and

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moved away and it was so fast I thought

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I imagined it but years later I did meet

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people who saw the same thing in the

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same area that was my interest in in

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flying saucers and UFOs and I remember I

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would walk along 47th Street I think it

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was and you there was a I thought it was

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called flying saucer news but no it was

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a flying saucer news bookstore and

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prosperity clinic it was a little

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bookstore there that had moved from

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Spanish Harlem like 96th Street and and

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moved over to the the west side I guess

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it's kind of on the fringes of hell's

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the

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kitchen and show business right right

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yeah and and a little mat a little fella

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to read the gym rig burg kept very

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strange out hours because I think for a

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while he did have a another job well I

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wouldn't say there was a you know a

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part-time effort because he did put out

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a little a newsletter as well but he had

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a small collection of books and sold

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incense and talismans and hmm I guess

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other people knew about the his his

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place of course he's been deceased for a

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quite a number of years but he was a he

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was an early character in the UFO as a

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senior in New York by by all means you

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know I would pass by there every week

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and I would see it and I I know that you

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did a UFO conference at the hotel

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Commodore well that way yeah Jim Mosely

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actually organized the that one now a

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Jim was like the head honcho in

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Manhattan anymore is UFO scene went and

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I had first met Jim I guess around 1965

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or so I I was just uh a budding a

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teenager yeah yeah a boy I would

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certainly not have grown up now and that

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avoiding were unfortunately but I would

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take the bus over from my home in New

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Jersey and go to one of the hotels where

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he had his meeting a long time square in

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00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:36,390
those days you can rent a a little of

271
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:38,610
room with maybe 50 or 60 folding chairs

272
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:41,850
at it for for you know $25 for the night

273
00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:44,490
you can imagine what they charge now but

274
00:14:48,890 --> 00:14:46,320
he would have some of the top notch as

275
00:14:50,690 --> 00:14:48,900
speakers on the subject some of his

276
00:14:53,180 --> 00:14:50,700
speakers would appear on the Long John

277
00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:53,190
Neville talk show on the Marty like the

278
00:14:56,750 --> 00:14:55,170
night before and and he would sometimes

279
00:15:00,470 --> 00:14:56,760
get a crowd maybe a couple hundred

280
00:15:04,100 --> 00:15:00,480
people gray Barker Ivan T Sanderson and

281
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:04,110
I somehow I worked my way up through the

282
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:06,330
front door and became a a Jim's

283
00:15:12,650 --> 00:15:08,850
assistant I helped him you know Cynthia

284
00:15:15,860 --> 00:15:12,660
the chairs and a type out the the Flyers

285
00:15:17,250 --> 00:15:15,870
and he had an interesting organization

286
00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:17,260
and

287
00:15:24,090 --> 00:15:21,370
then in 1967 he had the largest indoor

288
00:15:28,710 --> 00:15:24,100
UFO conference or convention at the

289
00:15:32,820 --> 00:15:28,720
hotel Commodore which is now Trump one

290
00:15:35,930 --> 00:15:32,830
of the building I think and I had a vibe

291
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:35,940
Ennis the lady from another planet and

292
00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:39,730
the Roy Thinnes who was the the star of

293
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:42,880
the TV show the invaders and Howard

294
00:15:48,780 --> 00:15:45,370
mentor spoke and that's the first time

295
00:15:50,550 --> 00:15:48,790
that I even met Brad Steiger and and

296
00:15:53,670 --> 00:15:50,560
then after he kind of gave up and moved

297
00:15:56,490 --> 00:15:53,680
to or to Florida I took over having

298
00:15:59,270 --> 00:15:56,500
having a meetings we would rent places

299
00:16:01,980 --> 00:15:59,280
around time must square like the Wilkey

300
00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:01,990
Memorial Building and you know we had a

301
00:16:07,050 --> 00:16:04,570
little of venues and then we opened the

302
00:16:10,410 --> 00:16:07,060
occult Center down on 14th Street it was

303
00:16:13,710 --> 00:16:10,420
a lot of 2,200 put swea loft with about

304
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:13,720
50 chairs in front that some room in the

305
00:16:18,690 --> 00:16:16,570
back we'd have a set a nice a Anse with

306
00:16:21,450 --> 00:16:18,700
the kiddie you steal and while he was

307
00:16:23,010 --> 00:16:21,460
one of the lecturers and you remember

308
00:16:26,370 --> 00:16:23,020
some of the other people that spoke that

309
00:16:31,530 --> 00:16:26,380
you I remember going to Wally's

310
00:16:35,460 --> 00:16:31,540
apartment yes that's where I went to

311
00:16:38,940 --> 00:16:35,470
some of the events I remember but she

312
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:38,950
had a magic circle at the door yes I

313
00:16:45,510 --> 00:16:43,930
hear magic yes yes she was I just

314
00:16:49,620 --> 00:16:45,520
thought she was amazing I mean what was

315
00:16:53,310 --> 00:16:49,630
I 18 and that was this beautiful warring

316
00:16:55,290 --> 00:16:53,320
mystical person so I was interested in

317
00:16:58,340 --> 00:16:55,300
that I didn't really get interested in

318
00:17:00,570 --> 00:16:58,350
the more intellectual aspects of

319
00:17:03,870 --> 00:17:00,580
ceremonial magic and some of the other

320
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:03,880
things that I later on came to read

321
00:17:11,070 --> 00:17:06,730
about and learn a bit about but in those

322
00:17:13,830 --> 00:17:11,080
days magical she was at the candle magic

323
00:17:17,070 --> 00:17:13,840
and as you did to attend some of the

324
00:17:19,530 --> 00:17:17,080
seances that the a Clifford Tobias gave

325
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:19,540
over at the I remember district right

326
00:17:25,230 --> 00:17:23,530
yeah the in Soniya was the the

327
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:25,240
headquarters for the spiritualist

328
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:29,050
movement days I think every year Sunday

329
00:17:35,129 --> 00:17:31,570
afternoon they had a spiritual

330
00:17:37,649 --> 00:17:35,139
yeah services yeah yeah and I wish I

331
00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:37,659
wanted oh yeah in fact Carol Rodriguez

332
00:17:42,779 --> 00:17:40,240
the gal who works from the for me to

333
00:17:45,269 --> 00:17:42,789
this day my assistant here she went to a

334
00:17:48,269 --> 00:17:45,279
seance that Clifford abayas

335
00:17:49,999 --> 00:17:48,279
gave she speaks of him very highly in

336
00:17:52,799 --> 00:17:50,009
fact she mentions the incident in the

337
00:17:55,019 --> 00:17:52,809
the book about Wally where she actually

338
00:17:58,799 --> 00:17:55,029
heard her dog come through she

339
00:18:01,080 --> 00:17:58,809
recognizes for our kids and so forth so

340
00:18:03,950 --> 00:18:01,090
okay so you you took classes of the

341
00:18:07,529 --> 00:18:03,960
occult Center and attended while he's a

342
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:07,539
lecture how what did you where did you

343
00:18:13,110 --> 00:18:09,610
proceed after that and what do after

344
00:18:16,649 --> 00:18:13,120
that it was Wiser's Weiser's and all the

345
00:18:19,860 --> 00:18:16,659
fabulous stuff on the bulletin board you

346
00:18:23,700 --> 00:18:19,870
would go into the Isles advisors and you

347
00:18:26,129 --> 00:18:23,710
could hear people talking about remember

348
00:18:29,970 --> 00:18:26,139
I heard them talking about this man who

349
00:18:32,580 --> 00:18:29,980
was visiting in from wherever it was he

350
00:18:35,399 --> 00:18:32,590
was in Long Island and then was Israel

351
00:18:37,889 --> 00:18:35,409
Regardie and he had known Crowley should

352
00:18:40,740 --> 00:18:37,899
hear all these interesting conversations

353
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:40,750
in the Isles I remember the first book I

354
00:18:45,090 --> 00:18:43,570
saw they had an alpha witchcraft and I

355
00:18:47,759 --> 00:18:45,100
was interested in that at the time

356
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:47,769
Gerald Gardner stuff the first book I

357
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:50,490
saw was this little pamphlet and it said

358
00:18:55,860 --> 00:18:54,129
cursive inverses with by a man called

359
00:18:59,430 --> 00:18:55,870
Leo Martel oh I don't know if you've

360
00:19:02,850 --> 00:18:59,440
ever heard of him oh I knew Leo he was

361
00:19:06,539 --> 00:19:02,860
yeah a good friend of witch hazel which

362
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:06,549
I know sounds like a put-on oh yeah yeah

363
00:19:11,039 --> 00:19:09,129
she was a real person in fact she once

364
00:19:15,269 --> 00:19:11,049
showed me her driver's license she had

365
00:19:17,759 --> 00:19:15,279
her name eliminated yeah now while he

366
00:19:20,070 --> 00:19:17,769
was the White Witch of New York she

367
00:19:23,029 --> 00:19:20,080
would had a very positive attitude

368
00:19:26,190 --> 00:19:23,039
toward yes would never put a curse on

369
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:26,200
anybody witch hazel on the other other

370
00:19:33,539 --> 00:19:28,570
hand had a little bit more of a dark

371
00:19:35,610 --> 00:19:33,549
side to her she would cast if she didn't

372
00:19:38,730 --> 00:19:35,620
like it she you know kick you in the

373
00:19:42,210 --> 00:19:38,740
shins are doing spelling yeah I I do i I

374
00:19:45,420 --> 00:19:42,220
do believe but we never mind like that

375
00:19:47,490 --> 00:19:45,430
yeah yeah well we yeah oh he was yes he

376
00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:47,500
certainly was he was the the first gay

377
00:19:54,930 --> 00:19:49,360
which that I know of and he was very

378
00:19:56,670 --> 00:19:54,940
outspoken yeah yeah by all the means in

379
00:19:58,020 --> 00:19:56,680
fact he wrote a paperback book which I

380
00:20:02,520 --> 00:19:58,030
don't remember the title of it it's

381
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:02,530
probably difficult to to define but okay

382
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:04,810
so you did you actually become a witch I

383
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:06,730
mean would you consider yourself well

384
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:10,650
well this I was for many years I became

385
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:13,690
see there are different strains of a

386
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:15,730
culture in New York City at that time

387
00:20:20,940 --> 00:20:18,250
you had like the OTO people that were in

388
00:20:22,860 --> 00:20:20,950
the clubs yeah there was a place they

389
00:20:31,020 --> 00:20:22,870
called no I think they would hang out

390
00:20:34,980 --> 00:20:31,030
yeah yeah Peter Levin doe Levin de was

391
00:20:38,550 --> 00:20:34,990
part of that gurney and Jim Watson who

392
00:20:41,730 --> 00:20:38,560
wrote a great book that talks about the

393
00:20:44,670 --> 00:20:41,740
the early formation of the Tod Lodge in

394
00:20:47,550 --> 00:20:44,680
New York City that was one string but

395
00:20:50,340 --> 00:20:47,560
then you had like through garden Aryan

396
00:20:53,430 --> 00:20:50,350
Wicca coming out of Long Island with

397
00:20:56,250 --> 00:20:53,440
Raymond Buckland people oh yeah yeah you

398
00:20:57,540 --> 00:20:56,260
had another string that came through

399
00:21:01,830 --> 00:20:57,550
margo atler

400
00:21:03,450 --> 00:21:01,840
and within that little mess or mish-mosh

401
00:21:06,210 --> 00:21:03,460
i don't know how to explain it

402
00:21:09,300 --> 00:21:06,220
there was Herman's later at the warlock

403
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:09,310
shop later the magical child what it

404
00:21:15,540 --> 00:21:12,850
what a character yeah by all means it he

405
00:21:19,790 --> 00:21:15,550
used to carry all our books there and he

406
00:21:29,070 --> 00:21:24,660
bookshelves yeah yeah we sold everything

407
00:21:33,170 --> 00:21:29,080
I mean capes to perform you know satanic

408
00:21:36,660 --> 00:21:33,180
rituals and crystal balls tarot cards

409
00:21:38,490 --> 00:21:36,670
oils and enough herbs that when you came

410
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:38,500
into the shop you'd know exactly what

411
00:21:43,590 --> 00:21:40,450
you were smelling yes yes and in the

412
00:21:46,980 --> 00:21:43,600
back he had the OTO would meet he had

413
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:46,990
people who supposedly the Necronomicon

414
00:21:52,650 --> 00:21:49,810
was written back there in one of their

415
00:21:55,620 --> 00:21:52,660
rituals so you had that strange but I

416
00:21:59,160 --> 00:21:55,630
was more interested in this wholesome

417
00:22:02,130 --> 00:21:59,170
gerald gardner from the brit the british

418
00:22:06,570 --> 00:22:02,140
the British strain of Wicca and that

419
00:22:09,150 --> 00:22:06,580
came through margo atler now Margo Abbot

420
00:22:11,010 --> 00:22:09,160
was the big witch in the 70s and 80s and

421
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:11,020
after that came a woman called Judy

422
00:22:15,990 --> 00:22:13,450
Harrow who wrote some good books and

423
00:22:19,530 --> 00:22:16,000
after that we had something called New

424
00:22:22,740 --> 00:22:19,540
Moon New York and in the 1990s which was

425
00:22:24,060 --> 00:22:22,750
a network group of different pagan

426
00:22:27,750 --> 00:22:24,070
groups in the area

427
00:22:30,030 --> 00:22:27,760
so that I was involved with all that I

428
00:22:32,820 --> 00:22:30,040
was looking the first time I actually

429
00:22:34,530 --> 00:22:32,830
had an opportunity to go to a circle was

430
00:22:36,330 --> 00:22:34,540
through something called our pagan times

431
00:22:38,310 --> 00:22:36,340
which was a little newsletter was a

432
00:22:41,790 --> 00:22:38,320
great newsletter and I got involved with

433
00:22:43,770 --> 00:22:41,800
that and then I moved on I'm still

434
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:43,780
involved through the fellowship of Isis

435
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:45,730
which is a very different kind of group

436
00:22:52,140 --> 00:22:48,970
more eclectic and founded by Olivia

437
00:22:54,750 --> 00:22:52,150
Robertson Lady Olivia Robertson in

438
00:22:56,850 --> 00:22:54,760
Ireland and a castle very lovely person

439
00:22:58,710 --> 00:22:56,860
lovely people I can't say anything

440
00:23:03,570 --> 00:22:58,720
negative about anyone I've met through

441
00:23:06,570 --> 00:23:03,580
that and we we get together we go and

442
00:23:08,490 --> 00:23:06,580
talk about general spiritual matters so

443
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:08,500
I kind of evolved into different things

444
00:23:14,250 --> 00:23:11,530
the öto was important I think because

445
00:23:16,740 --> 00:23:14,260
that Lister Crowley is a name that you

446
00:23:18,810 --> 00:23:16,750
hear you hear all kinds of things about

447
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:18,820
him but what do you really know that he

448
00:23:24,150 --> 00:23:21,490
teaches you know so you want to go and

449
00:23:27,780 --> 00:23:24,160
you want to read about his teachings his

450
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:27,790
ideas he wasn't all satanic he was a

451
00:23:33,420 --> 00:23:31,450
magician but it wasn't what people think

452
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:33,430
of horns and the Devils a church of

453
00:23:38,850 --> 00:23:36,250
Saint yeah it was a very intellectual

454
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:38,860
path actually with some very beautiful

455
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:42,490
writing that he did but he also like he

456
00:23:49,230 --> 00:23:45,610
also liked the attention that yeah yeah

457
00:23:52,470 --> 00:23:49,240
yeah by a by all means he was the the in

458
00:23:58,350 --> 00:23:52,480
a sense the PT Barnum of the Hilton is

459
00:24:02,630 --> 00:23:58,360
it is nearby oh yeah yep III believe it

460
00:24:06,690 --> 00:24:02,640
do I hear the the use of the commercial

461
00:24:09,390 --> 00:24:06,700
break coming upon us so we'll be out of

462
00:24:11,580 --> 00:24:09,400
here for just a minute or two and then

463
00:24:12,690 --> 00:24:11,590
we'll be back with our very fascinating

464
00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:12,700
guest I've this

465
00:24:17,370 --> 00:24:15,760
like homecoming at night for me I I

466
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:17,380
haven't talked really to anyone about

467
00:24:23,580 --> 00:24:19,330
the occult center in all the early days

468
00:24:32,370 --> 00:24:23,590
of the company like enough a long time

469
00:24:39,100 --> 00:24:36,520
now back to exploring the bazaars with

470
00:24:42,100 --> 00:24:39,110
two of the most electrifying researchers

471
00:24:48,100 --> 00:24:42,110
in the Paranoid your hosts Timothy

472
00:24:50,020 --> 00:24:48,110
beckoning Anton lists we welcome back to

473
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:50,030
explore in the bazaar I'm Tim Schwarz

474
00:24:56,410 --> 00:24:52,970
tonight we were talking with Carol Linda

475
00:24:58,300 --> 00:24:56,420
Gonzalez and Carol you had mentioned at

476
00:25:00,430 --> 00:24:58,310
the during the first segment that you

477
00:25:03,540 --> 00:25:00,440
wrote an article for The Village Voice

478
00:25:06,610 --> 00:25:03,550
and 1999 what was that article about

479
00:25:09,220 --> 00:25:06,620
well it was about the different groups

480
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:09,230
that were active in New York City at the

481
00:25:16,450 --> 00:25:13,250
time we're pagans gather we had candle

482
00:25:17,260 --> 00:25:16,460
therapy other worldly waxes Morgana's

483
00:25:19,330 --> 00:25:17,270
chamber

484
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:19,340
Robert Pratt had a group of course

485
00:25:24,670 --> 00:25:21,770
enchantments which is still there under

486
00:25:27,190 --> 00:25:24,680
different management the right even the

487
00:25:28,780 --> 00:25:27,200
radical fairies were mentioned New Moon

488
00:25:30,490 --> 00:25:28,790
New York there are different groups that

489
00:25:33,430 --> 00:25:30,500
were meeting around New York City that's

490
00:25:36,370 --> 00:25:33,440
what it was about and at the time there

491
00:25:39,010 --> 00:25:36,380
was nothing like that I was told by the

492
00:25:44,380 --> 00:25:39,020
Village Voice editor they did in a

493
00:25:47,140 --> 00:25:44,390
feature on alternative religions so this

494
00:25:49,630 --> 00:25:47,150
was the pagans it was a section for sunt

495
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:49,640
area there was a section for something

496
00:25:59,350 --> 00:25:54,050
else too so that's what it was about so

497
00:26:01,780 --> 00:25:59,360
now how how his times changed since then

498
00:26:05,110 --> 00:26:01,790
when you know you you had all of these

499
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:05,120
these groups really active and you were

500
00:26:11,050 --> 00:26:07,490
talking about the the bookstore bulletin

501
00:26:16,060 --> 00:26:11,060
board and so you know here we are now in

502
00:26:18,100 --> 00:26:16,070
the the 21st century I mean is this are

503
00:26:20,650 --> 00:26:18,110
these groups still active are they still

504
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:20,660
meeting or his times really change that

505
00:26:26,380 --> 00:26:23,090
much for everyone well some of them are

506
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:26,390
but the majority or not it's very

507
00:26:30,850 --> 00:26:28,250
different now some of the groups that

508
00:26:32,980 --> 00:26:30,860
they have a [\h__\h]

509
00:26:36,670 --> 00:26:32,990
oh these groups are there to make money

510
00:26:39,730 --> 00:26:36,680
and one of the differences at the time

511
00:26:39,910 --> 00:26:39,740
when I was do when I was involved was we

512
00:26:44,670 --> 00:26:39,920
were

513
00:26:47,350 --> 00:26:44,680
share experiences try to answer

514
00:26:49,990 --> 00:26:47,360
questions or mysteries that we came

515
00:26:52,570 --> 00:26:50,000
across as I had mentioned I was a good

516
00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:52,580
churchgoer and I had had all these

517
00:26:59,320 --> 00:26:55,370
experiences but when I asked they didn't

518
00:27:02,470 --> 00:26:59,330
really have answers that made sense to

519
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:02,480
me so I went off on my own

520
00:27:06,430 --> 00:27:04,610
to learn on my own and that was really

521
00:27:08,890 --> 00:27:06,440
what the what these groups were about

522
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:08,900
the thing about Wicca at the time was it

523
00:27:14,070 --> 00:27:10,970
the ritual is very beautiful it's a very

524
00:27:17,410 --> 00:27:14,080
lovely ritual it's lovely to share

525
00:27:19,090 --> 00:27:17,420
people got bored with it because it's

526
00:27:21,670 --> 00:27:19,100
the same thing after a while but the

527
00:27:24,250 --> 00:27:21,680
when you do it like that repetitively it

528
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:24,260
has a power of its own that creates an

529
00:27:28,630 --> 00:27:27,890
energy of fellowship and and and it was

530
00:27:31,300 --> 00:27:28,640
just lovely

531
00:27:34,210 --> 00:27:31,310
but then you had other groups that are a

532
00:27:37,750 --> 00:27:34,220
little more dark as Tim mentioned in the

533
00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:37,760
first segment so you dealt with them

534
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:40,130
there were different paths that's what

535
00:27:44,260 --> 00:27:42,170
the groups were about the ones I

536
00:27:47,770 --> 00:27:44,270
mentioned were all pretty much positive

537
00:27:50,470 --> 00:27:47,780
group you talked about your own personal

538
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:50,480
experiences when when you were younger

539
00:27:55,570 --> 00:27:53,330
do you would you care to share some of

540
00:27:57,550 --> 00:27:55,580
those with us sure I'll give you one the

541
00:28:01,330 --> 00:27:57,560
very first one I remember I was a little

542
00:28:03,730 --> 00:28:01,340
girl mmm I was asleep and I woke up in

543
00:28:07,510 --> 00:28:03,740
the middle of the night and I see a man

544
00:28:10,090 --> 00:28:07,520
standing at the door and I get up and I

545
00:28:12,310 --> 00:28:10,100
said daddy I remember him very clearly

546
00:28:15,100 --> 00:28:12,320
had a smile and he had the shocks white

547
00:28:17,470 --> 00:28:15,110
hair that was loose and I ran to the

548
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:17,480
door so Daddy and I when I got there

549
00:28:22,540 --> 00:28:20,000
there was nobody there but I had seen

550
00:28:25,270 --> 00:28:22,550
him like three-dimensional as clear as

551
00:28:27,730 --> 00:28:25,280
day and I've had experiences like that

552
00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:27,740
throughout my life growing up dreams

553
00:28:31,870 --> 00:28:28,640
that come true

554
00:28:34,470 --> 00:28:31,880
see when answers in Bible class they

555
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:34,480
talked about Joseph's dreams and his

556
00:28:42,370 --> 00:28:36,890
interpretations I wanted answers like

557
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:42,380
that fade in heaven oh yeah it's it

558
00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:45,530
seems like that with the the church

559
00:28:50,140 --> 00:28:48,110
especially you know like well yeah

560
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:50,150
Joseph Joseph can have these dreams but

561
00:28:53,830 --> 00:28:52,730
you know if you have them then you know

562
00:29:02,200 --> 00:28:53,840
it's probably the devil

563
00:29:05,230 --> 00:29:02,210
yeah yeah so I think that a lot of

564
00:29:09,190 --> 00:29:05,240
people who maybe listen to this their

565
00:29:12,970 --> 00:29:09,200
you know their concept of say like you

566
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:12,980
know Wiccan or witchcraft you know that

567
00:29:20,050 --> 00:29:16,490
sort of thing could either go with like

568
00:29:21,820 --> 00:29:20,060
maybe the the books they ran as a

569
00:29:25,330 --> 00:29:21,830
teenager you know how to be a teenage

570
00:29:27,250 --> 00:29:25,340
witch - you know bubble bubble toil and

571
00:29:32,770 --> 00:29:27,260
trouble and writing around on on a

572
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:32,780
broomstick so you know what if you had

573
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:34,610
you know and you do you you know you

574
00:29:38,020 --> 00:29:36,290
have this opportunity what's tool you

575
00:29:42,340 --> 00:29:38,030
know what's the difference I mean what

576
00:29:45,310 --> 00:29:42,350
you know what's the reality well in

577
00:29:47,740 --> 00:29:45,320
terms of what I think there are groups

578
00:29:49,900 --> 00:29:47,750
like our double double toil and trouble

579
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:49,910
there are groups like that and if you

580
00:29:55,900 --> 00:29:53,450
are open to if you're psychic you have

581
00:29:58,360 --> 00:29:55,910
any kind of spiritual sensitivity you're

582
00:30:01,270 --> 00:29:58,370
going to you could be attracted to

583
00:30:04,870 --> 00:30:01,280
something very negative with negative

584
00:30:08,830 --> 00:30:04,880
people I met a few along the along the

585
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:08,840
way people who use you and you can tell

586
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:11,690
I I won't go into details but you can

587
00:30:16,270 --> 00:30:14,330
tell when you're in a group of people

588
00:30:18,820 --> 00:30:16,280
that are somewhat negative and you want

589
00:30:22,570 --> 00:30:18,830
to pull away from them they they drain

590
00:30:24,850 --> 00:30:22,580
you and they there things happen to you

591
00:30:26,740 --> 00:30:24,860
that are very negative bad and you want

592
00:30:28,860 --> 00:30:26,750
to get away from them and then you have

593
00:30:31,900 --> 00:30:28,870
wonderful people on the Westside when

594
00:30:34,020 --> 00:30:31,910
Tim was talking about Clifford bias

595
00:30:37,060 --> 00:30:34,030
there were all these wonderful groups

596
00:30:40,990 --> 00:30:37,070
along in on Manhattan's West Side there

597
00:30:43,330 --> 00:30:41,000
was the Cathedral of st. John the Divine

598
00:30:45,850 --> 00:30:43,340
there was there were people that would

599
00:30:48,790 --> 00:30:45,860
meet on a weekly basis

600
00:30:51,730 --> 00:30:48,800
there was a woman Col Marlene that I

601
00:30:56,290 --> 00:30:51,740
knew on the west side and she was said

602
00:30:59,680 --> 00:30:56,300
to have met what was John Lennon's wife

603
00:31:03,370 --> 00:30:59,690
oko yono yeah they lived they lived on

604
00:31:07,690 --> 00:31:03,380
the same street she had some abilities

605
00:31:11,370 --> 00:31:07,700
and ethel myers who had told her work

606
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:11,380
was on 73rd Street they were all on 73rd

607
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:15,170
she was just on TV last week - yeah Oh

608
00:31:20,910 --> 00:31:16,970
Graham on the Travel Channel

609
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:20,920
yeah with would Davis writer of first

610
00:31:27,870 --> 00:31:24,410
darkness radio right friend of ours and

611
00:31:31,030 --> 00:31:27,880
they had some of honza's old home movies

612
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:31,040
yeah he was she he worked with those

613
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:32,690
short robins as well who used the

614
00:31:39,310 --> 00:31:36,050
lecture for us all the time I met her

615
00:31:42,220 --> 00:31:39,320
but I had readings from Ethel Myers they

616
00:31:44,830 --> 00:31:42,230
were all on 73rd Street between Broadway

617
00:31:47,050 --> 00:31:44,840
you know where the Ansonia is all along

618
00:31:51,270 --> 00:31:47,060
that Street yeah they let it all go

619
00:31:54,370 --> 00:31:51,280
upstairs upstairs - there was a - ladies

620
00:31:57,790 --> 00:31:54,380
earth dog I think her name was and they

621
00:32:01,840 --> 00:31:57,800
used to they used to have lectures they

622
00:32:06,130 --> 00:32:01,850
had what was the fellow from California

623
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:06,140
that wrote the book on Oh the Masons

624
00:32:16,450 --> 00:32:11,690
heavy set guy who he was manning I can't

625
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:16,460
Jesus my my mind and motivation

626
00:32:23,190 --> 00:32:20,450
no I can't remember his name but very

627
00:32:26,470 --> 00:32:23,200
well they'll elect a nun lecture on the

628
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:26,480
Masonic Order yeah but it was like a

629
00:32:33,340 --> 00:32:31,010
thousand pages that the wisdom bound

630
00:32:38,740 --> 00:32:33,350
with the gold leaf and everything to

631
00:32:42,190 --> 00:32:38,750
Linden not merrily Palmer not man oh I

632
00:32:46,270 --> 00:32:42,200
thought he was okay I didn't know he was

633
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:46,280
that alive that late oh my goodness yes

634
00:32:51,310 --> 00:32:48,650
I know I don't remember what it must

635
00:32:55,180 --> 00:32:51,320
have been in the early 70s because they

636
00:32:58,870 --> 00:32:55,190
had a place of us there's the two ladies

637
00:33:01,660 --> 00:32:58,880
they had a huge gong in the you know by

638
00:33:04,420 --> 00:33:01,670
the the podium and when they started the

639
00:33:08,260 --> 00:33:04,430
talk they would you know bang the gong

640
00:33:09,940 --> 00:33:08,270
which would really really loud they had

641
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:09,950
another fellow there from I think from

642
00:33:14,770 --> 00:33:12,410
England or New Zealand who always gave

643
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:14,780
his wife a hard time because she could

644
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:16,930
never get the projector to to run the

645
00:33:21,610 --> 00:33:20,690
proper but it was a it was a really

646
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:21,620
active time

647
00:33:26,380 --> 00:33:24,410
in Manhattan yeah there was a I don't

648
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:26,390
know if you knew Vicki Hayes she had

649
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:29,330
this little theater up above the car

650
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:32,290
dealership there on Broadway and maybe

651
00:33:38,799 --> 00:33:36,010
54th or 55th Street headed midnight on

652
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:38,809
Saturdays she would have people like Ted

653
00:33:45,610 --> 00:33:41,450
Owens and woody derenberger and all they

654
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:45,620
wouldn't in lecture at her dance studio

655
00:33:52,330 --> 00:33:49,730
ah I remember at the Universalist Church

656
00:33:54,570 --> 00:33:52,340
there was Linda Eastman came one year

657
00:33:57,150 --> 00:33:54,580
and there were thousands of people

658
00:34:01,480 --> 00:33:57,160
thousands waiting to get in to hear her

659
00:34:04,510 --> 00:34:01,490
and what was the priest who who went off

660
00:34:08,050 --> 00:34:04,520
and his son died in the desert yeah he

661
00:34:10,540 --> 00:34:08,060
was there like yes it was incredible the

662
00:34:13,450 --> 00:34:10,550
people the activities I tell I got

663
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:13,460
involved with the a re again another

664
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:16,970
group of wonderful people it's different

665
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:19,850
from the dark paths that I kind of

666
00:34:25,810 --> 00:34:22,370
touched on that's that's a whole

667
00:34:28,119 --> 00:34:25,820
different world and you don't really if

668
00:34:30,010 --> 00:34:28,129
you're looking for the light you're not

669
00:34:32,290 --> 00:34:30,020
going to stay there and that's all I'll

670
00:34:34,419 --> 00:34:32,300
say about that why don't what did you

671
00:34:36,820 --> 00:34:34,429
tell our listeners a little bit about

672
00:34:39,850 --> 00:34:36,830
your involvement with Edgar Cayce I I

673
00:34:41,169 --> 00:34:39,860
would guess that most people would know

674
00:34:45,430 --> 00:34:41,179
who he was but give us a little

675
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:45,440
thumbnail oh well I was involved when I

676
00:34:51,490 --> 00:34:48,050
was around the same time that I I met

677
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:51,500
you they they had the Association for

678
00:34:57,700 --> 00:34:53,690
research and enlightenment had a group

679
00:35:01,210 --> 00:34:57,710
on East East the West 35th Street and

680
00:35:03,010 --> 00:35:01,220
they would have these gatherings every

681
00:35:05,710 --> 00:35:03,020
morning Saturday mornings they would

682
00:35:07,330 --> 00:35:05,720
dream interpretation groups so you'd

683
00:35:08,950 --> 00:35:07,340
come and people would talk about the

684
00:35:12,370 --> 00:35:08,960
dreams they had they talked about

685
00:35:16,810 --> 00:35:12,380
Casey's readings people would come and

686
00:35:18,940 --> 00:35:16,820
lecture from Virginia Beach we had it

687
00:35:23,050 --> 00:35:18,950
was just amazing one time Ingo Swann

688
00:35:25,870 --> 00:35:23,060
came to one of the lectures just again

689
00:35:27,610 --> 00:35:25,880
it was just a wonderful time with a lot

690
00:35:29,670 --> 00:35:27,620
of people seeking spiritual

691
00:35:34,060 --> 00:35:29,680
enlightenment

692
00:35:35,470 --> 00:35:34,070
true that those very conservative people

693
00:35:37,540 --> 00:35:35,480
in the church would probably

694
00:35:40,750 --> 00:35:37,550
think it was all work of the devil but

695
00:35:43,810 --> 00:35:40,760
if you can't answer the questions people

696
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:43,820
who are people who are really seeking

697
00:35:46,900 --> 00:35:45,530
are going to find them for themselves

698
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:46,910
they're going to have their own faith

699
00:35:53,890 --> 00:35:49,250
and they're going to follow what I would

700
00:35:56,890 --> 00:35:53,900
call the road of resonance they're going

701
00:36:00,490 --> 00:35:56,900
to follow a road that gathers that that

702
00:36:02,950 --> 00:36:00,500
guides them from from life challenge to

703
00:36:05,380 --> 00:36:02,960
the next that's how I was able to to

704
00:36:07,210 --> 00:36:05,390
survive in the world and make a nice

705
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:07,220
living for myself so I don't have to

706
00:36:13,450 --> 00:36:09,650
worry about money or anything I live

707
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:13,460
well and I learned how to use my skills

708
00:36:20,170 --> 00:36:16,010
in the workplace but I did a little

709
00:36:23,550 --> 00:36:20,180
magic if some workmate annoyed me I

710
00:36:26,349 --> 00:36:23,560
would do a little magic and I would play

711
00:36:29,590 --> 00:36:26,359
psychology with them because if you're

712
00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:29,600
if your job is on the line that's your

713
00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:31,250
livelihood you have a right to defend

714
00:36:37,090 --> 00:36:34,250
yourself so I would use the things I

715
00:36:39,790 --> 00:36:37,100
learned to protect myself from some of

716
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:39,800
the people who tried to get you fired or

717
00:36:45,490 --> 00:36:42,050
try to set you up because people do

718
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:45,500
things like that now that's that's very

719
00:36:51,130 --> 00:36:49,010
interesting aspect I think that there'd

720
00:36:55,650 --> 00:36:51,140
be a lot of people that would want to

721
00:36:59,349 --> 00:36:55,660
learn that those kinds of abilities just

722
00:37:01,440 --> 00:36:59,359
you know not not to tell you not to

723
00:37:04,270 --> 00:37:01,450
curse everyone in your work but just

724
00:37:06,250 --> 00:37:04,280
yourself along yeah yeah well that's

725
00:37:08,670 --> 00:37:06,260
what you did when you went to a search

726
00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:08,680
regard group or if you went to a

727
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:11,510
spiritual group or a Wicca group you

728
00:37:18,540 --> 00:37:14,170
would be working towards enlightenment

729
00:37:22,930 --> 00:37:18,550
learning how to handle problems it isn't

730
00:37:24,550 --> 00:37:22,940
doing a spell and the person drops dead

731
00:37:26,890 --> 00:37:24,560
or something like that what you're

732
00:37:29,980 --> 00:37:26,900
learning is how to work with other

733
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:29,990
people how to understand the nature of

734
00:37:34,930 --> 00:37:32,930
reality and that's when I got into more

735
00:37:37,870 --> 00:37:34,940
intellectual things where you start

736
00:37:41,109 --> 00:37:37,880
reading about different philosophers

737
00:37:43,090 --> 00:37:41,119
there were people I met who who knew

738
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:43,100
well who knew Cayce there were people

739
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:48,050
who met Trishna murti it was as long as

740
00:37:51,970 --> 00:37:49,130
you're open

741
00:37:55,690 --> 00:37:51,980
two different paths and and and reading

742
00:37:58,030 --> 00:37:55,700
and and willing to to learn and not

743
00:38:01,120 --> 00:37:58,040
think you're gonna go pay somebody to do

744
00:38:03,460 --> 00:38:01,130
a spell you you're going to bring that

745
00:38:05,860 --> 00:38:03,470
within your your own soul you're gonna

746
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:05,870
bring that within yourself and it

747
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:07,970
empowers you and makes you a much more

748
00:38:13,210 --> 00:38:10,370
powerful person some of the dark paths

749
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:13,220
that I have come across they want you to

750
00:38:18,220 --> 00:38:15,290
give them money and then they do a spell

751
00:38:20,380 --> 00:38:18,230
for you and it may work and then they

752
00:38:22,660 --> 00:38:20,390
keep trying to get more money out of you

753
00:38:26,710 --> 00:38:22,670
to keep the spells working that's one

754
00:38:30,550 --> 00:38:26,720
thing that I've seen you don't want to

755
00:38:33,970 --> 00:38:30,560
go that way at least I never did so hey

756
00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:33,980
you you mentioned of course earlier in

757
00:38:40,810 --> 00:38:37,730
the show here about your UFO sighting

758
00:38:42,820 --> 00:38:40,820
aren't you a friends of the Mark

759
00:38:48,340 --> 00:38:42,830
Brinkerhoff and his wife Phyllis right

760
00:38:51,580 --> 00:38:48,350
yes I have met them yes and yes we did a

761
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:51,590
talk together I did an intro about Ingo

762
00:38:59,070 --> 00:38:56,810
Swann who he was how a little bit about

763
00:39:02,620 --> 00:38:59,080
what I knew but they actually knew him

764
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:02,630
and so then it's segwayed into their

765
00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:05,210
experiences with Ingo Swann as an artist

766
00:39:13,990 --> 00:39:09,440
his work as an artist market yeah mark

767
00:39:17,220 --> 00:39:14,000
is an incredible painter he artist he he

768
00:39:20,140 --> 00:39:17,230
takes his a UFO or contacts mmm-hmm with

769
00:39:23,590 --> 00:39:20,150
spaceship brothers and does the you know

770
00:39:27,370 --> 00:39:23,600
paintings very very I mean just

771
00:39:29,830 --> 00:39:27,380
tremendous of one of the ashtar is in

772
00:39:32,140 --> 00:39:29,840
this book that we did the space brothers

773
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:32,150
to speak that came out a couple of

774
00:39:38,050 --> 00:39:35,570
months ago and we we knew Ingalls now

775
00:39:39,670 --> 00:39:38,060
inglis one I had met him I could say

776
00:39:41,710 --> 00:39:39,680
technically that I had lunch with him

777
00:39:44,860 --> 00:39:41,720
but I never really spoke to him at

778
00:39:47,110 --> 00:39:44,870
length he would come to John kilos for

779
00:39:49,990 --> 00:39:47,120
tea in society meetings which were held

780
00:39:53,110 --> 00:39:50,000
in the vacant what is now a vacant lot

781
00:39:54,700 --> 00:39:53,120
right next to where I reside and as of

782
00:39:57,670 --> 00:39:54,710
today they have started putting up a

783
00:40:00,460 --> 00:39:57,680
skyscraper there so I have to constrict

784
00:40:03,700 --> 00:40:00,470
buzzing and drilling and hammering for

785
00:40:05,980 --> 00:40:03,710
the next five years of my life

786
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:05,990
yeah I mean well you know Carol this

787
00:40:09,700 --> 00:40:07,370
whole neighborhood now is nothing but

788
00:40:11,170 --> 00:40:09,710
skyscrapers they all look the same you

789
00:40:12,550 --> 00:40:11,180
can accidentally walk into a building

790
00:40:15,250 --> 00:40:12,560
and not know where you were because it

791
00:40:18,220 --> 00:40:15,260
looks like the same one as you know a

792
00:40:20,860 --> 00:40:18,230
block away but endo would come to the

793
00:40:24,130 --> 00:40:20,870
the John keels of meetings and then we

794
00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:24,140
would go down to miss Kay's the the

795
00:40:28,290 --> 00:40:25,730
little deli on the corner set upstairs

796
00:40:32,470 --> 00:40:28,300
and eat meatball sandwiches

797
00:40:34,150 --> 00:40:32,480
but yet you know did you ever work with

798
00:40:38,530 --> 00:40:34,160
him and they were remote viewing at all

799
00:40:41,110 --> 00:40:38,540
no no I in fact I only saw him that one

800
00:40:43,660 --> 00:40:41,120
time at the a re where he came and

801
00:40:46,780 --> 00:40:43,670
everybody was was he attended one of the

802
00:40:49,780 --> 00:40:46,790
talks and everyone was all excited about

803
00:40:52,270 --> 00:40:49,790
him I don't think that people really

804
00:40:57,990 --> 00:40:52,280
understood what remote viewing was at

805
00:41:06,940 --> 00:41:02,560
you had talked about the some groups

806
00:41:12,190 --> 00:41:06,950
that that take the dark path so to speak

807
00:41:14,830 --> 00:41:12,200
now and you in reference to UFOs I'm not

808
00:41:18,310 --> 00:41:14,840
sure have have you heard the stories

809
00:41:21,070 --> 00:41:18,320
that have come out and probably over the

810
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:21,080
last 10 years or so saying that the the

811
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:31,360
bringing them into this reality using

812
00:41:38,380 --> 00:41:35,330
the dark path well I I can imagine what

813
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:38,390
they would say that they would be this

814
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:40,370
sounds like something from Lovecraft you

815
00:41:47,110 --> 00:41:44,450
know and they would be invoking dark

816
00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:47,120
entities but I don't think I've heard of

817
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:52,250
it as UFO context more demonic things

818
00:41:58,480 --> 00:41:54,530
that were coming into the world like

819
00:42:01,180 --> 00:41:58,490
that that I just went to a UFO

820
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:01,190
conference in Phoenix last month and

821
00:42:08,740 --> 00:42:04,130
they were mentioning the skinwalker

822
00:42:11,980 --> 00:42:08,750
ranch and how some people that that some

823
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:11,990
of the the government agencies that were

824
00:42:16,930 --> 00:42:14,410
working there we're trying to cut it

825
00:42:20,530 --> 00:42:16,940
shut it down because they felt

826
00:42:25,510 --> 00:42:20,540
demonic in nature I I wouldn't know I'm

827
00:42:28,599 --> 00:42:25,520
more interested I'm sorry right now I'm

828
00:42:31,410 --> 00:42:28,609
more interested in hearing about people

829
00:42:34,540 --> 00:42:31,420
who have had contacts who are

830
00:42:37,870 --> 00:42:34,550
unquestionably honest rather than people

831
00:42:39,790 --> 00:42:37,880
who make up stories so I I just heard

832
00:42:44,290 --> 00:42:39,800
Calvin Parker who I thought was a

833
00:42:51,250 --> 00:42:44,300
phenomenal guest he's so honest and

834
00:42:53,859 --> 00:42:51,260
sincere someone who who had he actually

835
00:42:55,930 --> 00:42:53,869
had a mental breakdown or emotional

836
00:42:58,390 --> 00:42:55,940
breakdown because he couldn't handle

837
00:43:01,450 --> 00:42:58,400
what he had seen it was only a 17 year

838
00:43:03,790 --> 00:43:01,460
old man at the time people like that is

839
00:43:06,550 --> 00:43:03,800
who I'm interested in how do they handle

840
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:06,560
it what what when they tell me what

841
00:43:11,349 --> 00:43:09,170
they've seen I believe them and I want

842
00:43:13,990 --> 00:43:11,359
to know what they see because there's

843
00:43:15,730 --> 00:43:14,000
all these theories now that UFOs and

844
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:15,740
entities that come from them they're

845
00:43:21,849 --> 00:43:18,530
really from our future or they're from

846
00:43:23,859 --> 00:43:21,859
some psychological place I I don't I

847
00:43:25,599 --> 00:43:23,869
can't I can't deal with that because if

848
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:25,609
people are actually seeing them and

849
00:43:30,370 --> 00:43:28,130
having physical interactions with them

850
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:30,380
they're not psychological and they're

851
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:33,530
not from some other place I want to hear

852
00:43:38,710 --> 00:43:35,690
more about that that's what my interest

853
00:43:40,660 --> 00:43:38,720
in as at this point I know I saw so I

854
00:43:43,180 --> 00:43:40,670
had this sighting I know it's real I

855
00:43:45,099 --> 00:43:43,190
know people who've had it and that's

856
00:43:47,980 --> 00:43:45,109
what I'm interested in these other

857
00:43:50,589 --> 00:43:47,990
things are because I love conspiracy

858
00:43:53,559 --> 00:43:50,599
theories believe me I love them but some

859
00:43:55,329 --> 00:43:53,569
of them are go way off track and I can't

860
00:43:58,599 --> 00:43:55,339
follow all of them I'm just interested

861
00:44:02,380 --> 00:43:58,609
in a few I'll stick to the few I can

862
00:44:04,569 --> 00:44:02,390
handle let's say that Farrell now we

863
00:44:07,809 --> 00:44:04,579
started off the the show with our little

864
00:44:11,109 --> 00:44:07,819
skit about the The Hobbit which I have

865
00:44:14,349 --> 00:44:11,119
to admit I know I know little if nothing

866
00:44:20,230 --> 00:44:14,359
about how how did you become interested

867
00:44:23,950 --> 00:44:20,240
in in the in the literature and how does

868
00:44:26,620 --> 00:44:23,960
it tie in if it does with the realm of

869
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:26,630
the paranormal here it ties in with the

870
00:44:34,750 --> 00:44:30,610
pagan world the

871
00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:34,760
Judy Harrow began Margot Adler became

872
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:37,730
aware of Wicca of Gerald Gardner of

873
00:44:43,290 --> 00:44:40,130
magic in that way through science

874
00:44:46,750 --> 00:44:43,300
fiction conferences the word it was a

875
00:44:49,030 --> 00:44:46,760
word-of-mouth it was passed through by

876
00:44:52,030 --> 00:44:49,040
word of mouth but Wicca what this was

877
00:44:54,940 --> 00:44:52,040
people got interested in it and one of

878
00:44:58,330 --> 00:44:54,950
my friends who no longer is with us was

879
00:45:00,280 --> 00:44:58,340
you could say a Tolkien scholar so he

880
00:45:03,250 --> 00:45:00,290
was very involved in the world of

881
00:45:06,580 --> 00:45:03,260
Tolkien and he connected it with

882
00:45:09,490 --> 00:45:06,590
folklore but his magic is about folklore

883
00:45:11,470 --> 00:45:09,500
there's magic in folklore so he couldn't

884
00:45:13,540 --> 00:45:11,480
he was the Celtic scholar as well he

885
00:45:17,710 --> 00:45:13,550
taught at the Irish Arts Center he spoke

886
00:45:20,050 --> 00:45:17,720
fluent Gaelic all three versions of it

887
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:20,060
was French and Russian and many other

888
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:22,130
languages and he was also very

889
00:45:26,770 --> 00:45:24,770
knowledgeable about Tolkien so I became

890
00:45:30,910 --> 00:45:26,780
very interested in Tolkien it's actually

891
00:45:33,220 --> 00:45:30,920
a literary field because Tolkien was

892
00:45:36,310 --> 00:45:33,230
held the chair of Old English at Oxford

893
00:45:39,490 --> 00:45:36,320
so there's many groups that are devoted

894
00:45:42,250 --> 00:45:39,500
to his work in terms of literature but I

895
00:45:45,550 --> 00:45:42,260
got involved with it because of the the

896
00:45:50,050 --> 00:45:45,560
pagan aspect or the magical aspect it's

897
00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:50,060
a magical world all right well we were

898
00:45:59,680 --> 00:45:51,920
coming up on the three minute mark

899
00:46:01,420 --> 00:45:59,690
before the end of our shows so is we

900
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:01,430
usually would say you know if you have a

901
00:46:07,500 --> 00:46:03,890
online presence you can let our audience

902
00:46:10,540 --> 00:46:07,510
know more about that you know have you

903
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:10,550
considered doing any more writing or

904
00:46:14,050 --> 00:46:11,570
ether or you know putting your

905
00:46:18,670 --> 00:46:14,060
experiences together in a book or you're

906
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:18,680
speaking to me I'm still working in the

907
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:22,490
legal field I think I'm going to have to

908
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:26,090
wait until I retire before I do anything

909
00:46:30,700 --> 00:46:28,490
like that I've actually started a

910
00:46:33,780 --> 00:46:30,710
website but I keep stopping it because I

911
00:46:38,770 --> 00:46:33,790
can't think of what to write about it I

912
00:46:41,380 --> 00:46:38,780
am interested in more interested in the

913
00:46:43,420 --> 00:46:41,390
face-to-face aspect of working with

914
00:46:44,110 --> 00:46:43,430
different people making magic together

915
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:44,120
because it

916
00:46:49,870 --> 00:46:47,210
healthy it it brings health to you but

917
00:46:51,970 --> 00:46:49,880
one day I may write something about some

918
00:46:55,630 --> 00:46:51,980
of my experiences are my thoughts or

919
00:46:58,720 --> 00:46:55,640
ideas but at this point I'm not sure I

920
00:47:02,380 --> 00:46:58,730
think I'm going to finish my legal work

921
00:47:04,690 --> 00:47:02,390
and which is very boring and it's about

922
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:04,700
aerospace and all sorts of them boring

923
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:09,410
stuff but licenses what-have-you but I I

924
00:47:17,110 --> 00:47:13,850
have been putting together journal every

925
00:47:20,860 --> 00:47:17,120
magical worker has a journal they have a

926
00:47:23,290 --> 00:47:20,870
journal of what they experience they the

927
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:23,300
things they do and the milestones in

928
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:25,130
their life so I've been putting that

929
00:47:32,410 --> 00:47:28,130
together maybe one day I'll oh I'll put

930
00:47:34,810 --> 00:47:32,420
it out as a blog people can can find you

931
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:34,820
on facebook especially people in the New

932
00:47:39,460 --> 00:47:37,970
York area who might want no way to might

933
00:47:41,890 --> 00:47:39,470
want to know where to go to get some

934
00:47:44,290 --> 00:47:41,900
enlightenment I mean you have all the

935
00:47:47,260 --> 00:47:44,300
intelligence that goes and again the

936
00:47:50,380 --> 00:47:47,270
book is David Bowie UFOs witchcraft

937
00:47:54,310 --> 00:47:50,390
cocaine and paranoia the occult saga of

938
00:47:58,600 --> 00:47:54,320
Wally L market it has a material Minerva

939
00:47:59,470 --> 00:47:58,610
Carol another guru Wally and that was a

940
00:48:01,510 --> 00:47:59,480
lot of the things we talked about

941
00:48:06,070 --> 00:48:01,520
tonight and don't forget our YouTube

942
00:48:08,290 --> 00:48:06,080
channel mr. UFOs files and Carol nice to

943
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:08,300
speak with you and I said have no knew

944
00:48:12,850 --> 00:48:10,850
all these many years great I want to

945
00:48:15,750 --> 00:48:12,860
know you another many years and I

946
00:48:18,190 --> 00:48:15,760
welcome anybody to friend me on Facebook

947
00:48:20,110 --> 00:48:18,200
who's listening to this and it just

948
00:48:22,060 --> 00:48:20,120
wants to have somebody to talk to on

949
00:48:26,980 --> 00:48:22,070
spiritual topics and things of that

950
00:48:31,990 --> 00:48:26,990
nature and they're in Jasper Indiana we

951
00:48:33,220 --> 00:48:32,000
will speak to you if not sooner and keep

952
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:33,230
up the work there on that the

953
00:48:42,430 --> 00:48:34,970
forthcoming yearbook incredible

954
00:48:48,849 --> 00:48:44,859
you've been listening to exploring the

955
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:48,859
bazaar with hosts Timothy Becky and T

956
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:52,130
Swartz they're taking back the night by

957
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:55,010
jetting non-stop across the cosmos in

958
00:49:01,380 --> 00:48:57,530
search of the truly bizarre and totally

959
00:49:03,890 --> 00:49:01,390
unexplained with you as their codes

960
00:49:08,370 --> 00:49:03,900
Thursday nights at 7:00 p.m. Pacific

961
00:49:09,590 --> 00:49:08,380
10:00 p.m. Eastern on the K cor digital

962
00:49:12,050 --> 00:49:09,600
radio

963
00:49:15,260 --> 00:49:12,060
for more information on exploring the

964
00:49:17,780 --> 00:49:15,270
bazaars and hosts Timothy Beckley and

965
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:17,790
Tim Swartz check out their kco our

966
00:49:27,020 --> 00:49:20,970
digital radio network follow their

967
00:49:38,050 --> 00:49:27,030
YouTube channel @m r UFO 1100 explore